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65" Vyper Discussion Thread

Bushwacker

3DRCF Moderator
No Doubt. In fact Im thinking of getting another one of these except in the yellow version. Especially with what I know now. Also I want a true 3D machine, but Im torn between something like a 87" Extra 300 SHP or 92" Edge 540. Something along those lines. :tongue:
 

gyro

GSN Contributor
No Doubt. In fact Im thinking of getting another one of these except in the yellow version. Especially with what I know now. Also I want a true 3D machine, but Im torn between something like a 87" Extra 300 SHP or 92" Edge 540. Something along those lines. :tongue:

The 92 Edge is the best flying 3dhs airplane that I've flown.
 

Bushwacker

3DRCF Moderator
Well guys I got it all together and It looks great. Motor and servos are turning and moving in the right direction and now Im at the end of what I know how to do.
Don't suppose anyone can direct me to some sort of tutorial that explains how to setup the electronics and servos and all that jazz? At this point in the build I know next to nothing. How to set servo travel, end points DR/Expo, Mix, none of it.

I was able to connect to the ZTW Gecko and set the bec to 7.4 for the servos, but left everything else on stock settings. There is no way to connect to the AR7610 like I could my AR7200BX and the booklet tells me nothing at all about setting it up either by TX, pc or program card or anything else. So I assume it is all done by the TX. Any feedback you have to offer would be great and thank you for anything I can get.
 

3dmike

640cc Uber Pimp
Well guys I got it all together and It looks great. Motor and servos are turning and moving in the right direction and now Im at the end of what I know how to do.
Don't suppose anyone can direct me to some sort of tutorial that explains how to setup the electronics and servos and all that jazz? At this point in the build I know next to nothing. How to set servo travel, end points DR/Expo, Mix, none of it.

I was able to connect to the ZTW Gecko and set the bec to 7.4 for the servos, but left everything else on stock settings. There is no way to connect to the AR7610 like I could my AR7200BX and the booklet tells me nothing at all about setting it up either by TX, pc or program card or anything else. So I assume it is all done by the TX. Any feedback you have to offer would be great and thank you for anything I can get.


I would consult your radio manual for most of what you have asked. I'm not a spektrum guy so I can't tell you from experience. I did find this manual with limited info on the receiver you mentioned. https://www.spektrumrc.com/ProdInfo/Files/SPMAR7600-Manual.pdf
 

gyro

GSN Contributor
Well guys I got it all together and It looks great. Motor and servos are turning and moving in the right direction and now Im at the end of what I know how to do.
Don't suppose anyone can direct me to some sort of tutorial that explains how to setup the electronics and servos and all that jazz? At this point in the build I know next to nothing. How to set servo travel, end points DR/Expo, Mix, none of it.

I was able to connect to the ZTW Gecko and set the bec to 7.4 for the servos, but left everything else on stock settings. There is no way to connect to the AR7610 like I could my AR7200BX and the booklet tells me nothing at all about setting it up either by TX, pc or program card or anything else. So I assume it is all done by the TX. Any feedback you have to offer would be great and thank you for anything I can get.

I would consult your radio manual for most of what you have asked. I'm not a spektrum guy so I can't tell you from experience. I did find this manual with limited info on the receiver you mentioned. https://www.spektrumrc.com/ProdInfo/Files/SPMAR7600-Manual.pdf

I think I can help answer some of what you're looking for.

First, lets talk about travel, end points, and expo.

Travel (end points) Spektrum calls it "Travel Adjust" where as Futaba, Hitec, and others call it End Point Adjustment, or EPA. It's the amount of servo travel represented in a percentage. For a DX6 the max will be 125%, DX7-18 will be 150%. You always want this to be as high as possible. First, setup all your servos and slowly increase your travel adjust in each direction until you reach the mechanical limits of travel. You can usually either see that the control surface is no longer moving, or you can sometimes hear it with the servos making a buzzing sound. I usually go to max, and then back it down a couple percent to make sure it's not going to bind at max in flight. Note: if your travel adjust numbers are under 100%, you might be able to move your servo rod inward one hole on the servo arm, and then increase the Travel Adjust. This will allow you the maximum performance of what your servos are capable off.

Expo. First, let me explain what DR and Expo are. Dual Rates allow you to use a switch to adjust the max throw of a control surface. Many advanced pilots use a separate switch for each control surface. I personally just use one three position switch. On the spektrum radios, the three position switch is located on the top right side of the radio. When go you into the D/R settings in the radio menu, you can choose which switch you want to use. (one each, or one for all).

Next, the Vyper manual comes with some recommended settings of: Ailerons- Low Rate 15 degrees 30% exponential
High Rate 30 degrees 70% exponential
Elevator- Low Rate 15 degrees 30% exponential
High Rate Maximum possible throw, at least 45 degrees 75% exponential
Rudder- Low Rate 30 degrees 30% exponential
High Rate 45 degrees 75% exponential

Now, you can program those with a throw gauge, and the use the D/R & Expo menu to set as recommended. On spektrum radios, the Expo setting is POSITIVE to make the controls less sensitive at near center. On Hitec (and Futaba I think) it's NEGATIVE.

The way I do my control Expo and Dual rate is this way: I setup a Low, Mid, and High, in this manner:

Low: Just enough deflection to be able to complete control the plane in all aspects, for landing & precision flying. Usually like this:
Aileron - 50% D/R, 50% expo
Elevator - 35% D/R, 50% expo
Rudder - 80% D/R, 75% expo

Mid rate: Enough to do nearly all 3D maneuvers, without so much deflection to over control things.
Aileron - 75% D/R, 70% expo
Elevator - 70% D/R, 70% expo
Rudder - 100% D/R, 75% expo

High Rate: the physical extremes of all controls. I usually use this for tumbles, spins, and other high energy/high deflection maneuvers.
Aileron - 100% D/R, 80% expo
Elevator - 100% D/R, 80% expo
Rudder - 100% D/R, 85% expo

Rates are a "personal" thing. There is no right or wrong answer on how to set them up. Experimentation and practice will tell you how you like them.

Mixing: It's really hard to say what mixes to put in BEFORE you fly, but many 3D airplanes require some rudder to aileron and/or rudder to elevator mixing to handle coupling in Knife Edge flight. You won't really know how much of what until you fly and attempt the maneuver. Then land, add the mix, and repeat. After a few tries, you'll be able to mix out any inputs you're making. All that said, the Vyper is one of the cleanest 3D planes made for Knife Edge and precision flying, so the required mixing should be minimal. One thing I did have programmed on my Vyper when I had it, was some "flaperons" to help slow it down some for landing. I was confined at the time to short carpet runway on the desert floor, with nothing but rocks and sharp shrubs surrounding the field. Until I mastered the harrier landings, having some extra drag on the wings helped slow things down some.

ESC: the gecko (and all ZTW ESCs) need to have their end points programmed before they'll work correctly for the first time. To do this, set the Travel Adjust for the throttle channel to 150% each direction. Then, set the throttle to MAX, and connect the battery. The ESC will "beep" twice, then move the throttle to MINIMUM and the ESC will "beep" once. Then it will "ARM" by beeping once for each battery cell. Your ESC has now learned your radio/rx's throttle channel, and you'll have the max resolution possible for your throttle. This only needs to be done once, or if you change your radio/rx.

Hopefully this helps, let me know if you have any other questions.
 

Bushwacker

3DRCF Moderator
Gyro that was freaking perfect man. Thank you so much brother. My thanks to you as well 3DMIKE. Man I love this site.
 

Bushwacker

3DRCF Moderator
You did more than that my friend. You explained it in a fashion that makes sense. You should write tech manuals. So what I did is reset the model and will start from scratch, re-bind without any preconfigured settings in the TX and then follow your suggestions.

BTW: The DX8 book tells me to set up the aileron servos like this...
AILE-Right Aileron channel
AUX1-Left Aileron channel
Or should I just use a Y-Harness for both? Bare in mind they are using a AR8000 RX for reference, which probably makes no difference, but thought I should mention it anyway just in case.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Bloosee

70cc twin V2
You did more than that my friend. You explained it in a fashion that makes sense. You should write tech manuals. So what I did is reset the model and will start from scratch, re-bind without any preconfigured settings in the TX and then follow your suggestions.

BTW: The DX8 book tells me to set up the aileron servos like this...
AILE-Right Aileron channel
AUX1-Left Aileron channel
Or should I just use a Y-Harness for both? Bare in mind they are using a AR8000 RX for reference, which probably makes no difference, but thought I should mention it anyway just in case.

No Y-harness unless for some reason you have no choice. Having separate ailerons allows you to fine tune each control separately, with a Y-harness it normally ends up being a bit of a compromise.
 

gyro

GSN Contributor
No Y-harness unless for some reason you have no choice. Having separate ailerons allows you to fine tune each control separately, with a Y-harness it normally ends up being a bit of a compromise.

Completely agree
 
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