TnAeroNut
50cc
I agree about the pilot, I think it looks a lot better in the air. Empty canopy always seems a little strange.
Putting the Scale back in Scale Aerobatics
- Thread starter IMAC FANATIC
- Start date
I agree about the pilot, I think it looks a lot better in the air. Empty canopy always seems a little strange.
TnAeroNut
50cc
If that happens, it may be the first time in the history of motor sports.
Bartman
Defender of the Noob!
that's not entirely true, aren't the classic pattern and senior pattern events a lot less expensive to participate in? hell, I bought a really nice Calypso for $125 that would beat the pants off of most planes at a classic event
Bartman
Defender of the Noob!
isn't it that the scale requirements aren't enforced?
while we're discussing this, why are radios allowed to do so much of the finer points of flying the plane?
sweetpea
100cc
I think the main reason is events are run by CD's who typically also compete. When I ran IMAC events I enforced the rules, so that meant pilot/dash required. Simple, if you don't have it, there was a point deduction that the computer software did for you.
Now the 10% rule is more difficult. As a CD you can tell any competitor......your plane doesn't meet 10% scale. I don't have to have proof or anything. The rules state its the competitor who has to PROVE their plane meets 10%. Then you get into length, height, wing placement, chord, stabs etc etc etc. 10% is pretty easy to meet. Though there are a few planes on the market that are no where near 10%.
The problem differs from NASCAR where they have specific requirements that must be met and NASCAR proves your car doesn't fit. Same thing with pattern. Weight and Size limit that must be met and can be checked and enforced by CD.
The last thing I hated about CDing for IMAC........you can petition any rule change, non rule enforcement you want. So for instance, I could send forward that no Futaba radios are allowed at my contest. If for some reason it gets approved.....rule stands. I've seen pilot/dash waived, rolling circles waived, boundaries waived etc etc. Usually there is a good reason like noise abatement or overfly. What I didn't like was many contests just didn't enforce pilot/panel. The rules do not say you simply can't enforce something because you the CD don't want to. IT MUST BE IN WRITING ON YOUR SANCTION FORM. If competitors wanted too, they could throw out many contests from lazy CD's who don't take the time to enforce rules or do the sanction form to not enforce a rule.
personally, I think the rule for pilot/panel needs to change. It should be gone or mandatory....no point deduction. IMAC is about flying and part of the 10% scale should include the pilot/panel.
Now the 10% rule is more difficult. As a CD you can tell any competitor......your plane doesn't meet 10% scale. I don't have to have proof or anything. The rules state its the competitor who has to PROVE their plane meets 10%. Then you get into length, height, wing placement, chord, stabs etc etc etc. 10% is pretty easy to meet. Though there are a few planes on the market that are no where near 10%.
The problem differs from NASCAR where they have specific requirements that must be met and NASCAR proves your car doesn't fit. Same thing with pattern. Weight and Size limit that must be met and can be checked and enforced by CD.
The last thing I hated about CDing for IMAC........you can petition any rule change, non rule enforcement you want. So for instance, I could send forward that no Futaba radios are allowed at my contest. If for some reason it gets approved.....rule stands. I've seen pilot/dash waived, rolling circles waived, boundaries waived etc etc. Usually there is a good reason like noise abatement or overfly. What I didn't like was many contests just didn't enforce pilot/panel. The rules do not say you simply can't enforce something because you the CD don't want to. IT MUST BE IN WRITING ON YOUR SANCTION FORM. If competitors wanted too, they could throw out many contests from lazy CD's who don't take the time to enforce rules or do the sanction form to not enforce a rule.
personally, I think the rule for pilot/panel needs to change. It should be gone or mandatory....no point deduction. IMAC is about flying and part of the 10% scale should include the pilot/panel.
Jetpainter
640cc Uber Pimp
Then you'd get someone complaining that your Calypso isn't a "Classic" because it's a taildragger. I've been there before.that's not entirely true, aren't the classic pattern and senior pattern events a lot less expensive to participate in? hell, I bought a really nice Calypso for $125 that would beat the pants off of most planes at a classic event
Bartman
Defender of the Noob!
Then you'd get someone complaining that your Calypso isn't a "Classic" because it's a taildragger. I've been there before.
whaa?? who???
Astrohog
70cc twin V2
I have never competed in IMAC.
I DO appreciate SCALE models and SCALE flying.
It is my belief that part of the problem with IMAC is that there is (in my opinion) only about 10% of the participants (and a far smaller percentage of spectators) that can even recognize which models are close in "scale" to their full-size counterparts. Take the Aeroworks Ultimate for example; it is the FUGLIEST excuse for an Ultimate that I have ever seen, yet it has legions of fans that believe it to be a close representation of the full-scale Ulti. MOST participants in IMAC are MODELERS first and have very little experience with IAC competition and the aircraft that participate in IAC. They have "grown" to recognize the popular IMAC platforms as an "Extra" or an "Edge", only because that is the representation of that aircraft that they actually see at the field week in and week out. The same holds true for IMAC participants' judging of the actual maneuvers; they base their opinions (scores) on what they see at the field every weekend, not necessarily on how the maneuver is supposed to be flown in the full-scale world at an IAC competition.
I am by no means a capable enough pilot to excel at a high level of scale aerobatics and I do respect those that have the talent and skill to do so. I would compete in IMAC (even if I wasn't competitive, because I do believe that is the best path to improving ones skills) if the majority of participants truly understood the full-scale world and were truly trying to do their best to replicate it, but it has become a popularity contest, who has the most $$ and who can "bend" the (10%) rule enough to have the most competitive airframe, etc. On any given IMAC weekend, a GOOD pilot should be able to win with a Decathlon, but unfortunately, I don't believe most judges could accurately judge a routine flown by a Decathlon because they are so used to judging routines flown by cleaner, sleeker aircraft.
This is just my opinion, based on my observations and experience. I know I am in the minority because MOST IMAC participants would disagree, or not even understand what I am talking about and take offense at my point of view, but I know there are a few participants in this thread that know and understand! (@Pistolera, @Bartman, @Terryscustom, @sweetpea, Wayne, etc.).
this post is NOT meant to be hateful or disrespectful to IMAC or its volunteers and participants in any way, just to provide one long-time modelers perspective!
Regards,
Astro
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sweetpea
100cc
Very True Astro.....except the there are some judging differences between IAC and IMAC (wind correction for starters). But you are right.....very rarely would you expect a judge to give a higher score to a high wing vs a midwing plane. Judging school should also be mandatory to be a Judge (or a CD of an IMAC event), but that is cost and personnel prohibitive.
I agree Astro.
From the IMAC page "The International Miniature Aerobatic Club (IMAC) is an organization dedicated to competitive sport of radio controlled Scale Aerobatic competition."
Is it a wonder why new people looking into IMAC, might think it's about SCALE airplanes and SCALE flight routines.
" but it has become a popularity contest, who has the most $$ and who can "bend" the (10%) rule enough to have the most competitive airframe,"
I have seen this first hand, when my local "expert" was asked about an entry level IMAC plane, I was informed that you have to have at least a 100cc size plane to even think of being competitive. And that seems to be the general opinion.
From the IMAC page "The International Miniature Aerobatic Club (IMAC) is an organization dedicated to competitive sport of radio controlled Scale Aerobatic competition."
Is it a wonder why new people looking into IMAC, might think it's about SCALE airplanes and SCALE flight routines.
" but it has become a popularity contest, who has the most $$ and who can "bend" the (10%) rule enough to have the most competitive airframe,"
I have seen this first hand, when my local "expert" was asked about an entry level IMAC plane, I was informed that you have to have at least a 100cc size plane to even think of being competitive. And that seems to be the general opinion.