• If you are new to GiantScaleNews.com, please register, introduce yourself, and make yourself at home.

    We're 1st in Giant Scale RC because we've got the best membership on the internet! Take a look around and don't forget to register to get all of the benefits of GSN membership!

    Welcome!

Carbon Build Up

Jedijody

50cc
Ok, I'll try to make this as short as possible.



Carbon is a natural byproduct of organic combustion. Nothing can be done or added to the fuel mixture to prevent carbon from being produced when it's burned. However, there are products that produce less carbon during combustion and more importantly, there are practices and controls the operator can use to help any carbon produced to be expelled out through the exhaust as is intended in a 2 stroke engine. Oil that is formulated for the application and temperatures the engine runs at is the first step, using enough of it is the next. After that the engine's combustion and running temp must be controlled to be within the range the oil is intended to be used at. One thing I see most people do is not use enough oil because they're too lazy to clean a little bit of oily carbon off the bottom of their plane.



The oil in 2 stroke mixed fuel has four primary functions. It lubricates, it seals, it cools, and it CLEANS. Since carbon is made from heating organic material to the point of combustion, the cooling and cleaning aspects go hand in hand. The hotter and drier carbon is made, the harder are the deposits and more difficult to remove. If the carbon is made, and kept at low enough temps it will stay soft, soft enough for the unburned oil to flush it out the exhaust port. Even when using good quality oil, the user can induce circumstances that allow, even promote heavy build up of carbon.



I've been preaching for years that people need to be running more oil in their 2 stroke hobby engines. I never run less oil than 32:1 in any of my small 2 strokes (75-80cc per jug and below), 30cc and under can actually benefit from 24:1 mixtures, under 20cc and 16-20:1 mixtures become necessary, IF you want to keep a clean engine and make it last.



Lastly there's heat, or operating temperature. If you're flying a modern day ARF, even if half the jug is exposed, there is no reason not to know the temps the engine is running at. And there is EVERY reason TOO know the temps your engine is running. One doesn't need expensive telemetry systems to monitor temps. A simple K type thermocouple temp logger like those available at Tower Hobbies (GAG) for $20, used intelligently, will tell you all you need to know. Keep the peak temps under 300F and your engine will thank you. Don't mention using an IR temp gun after landing to me, they're worthless and irrelevant.
 
Jedijody;14674 wrote: Ok, I'll try to make this as short as possible.



Carbon is a natural byproduct of organic combustion. Nothing can be done or added to the fuel mixture to prevent carbon from being produced when it's burned. However, there are products that produce less carbon during combustion and more importantly, there are practices and controls the operator can use to help any carbon produced to be expelled out through the exhaust as is intended in a 2 stroke engine. Oil that is formulated for the application and temperatures the engine runs at is the first step, using enough of it is the next. After that the engine's combustion and running temp must be controlled to be within the range the oil is intended to be used at. One thing I see most people do is not use enough oil because they're too lazy to clean a little bit of oily carbon off the bottom of their plane.



The oil in 2 stroke mixed fuel has four primary functions. It lubricates, it seals, it cools, and it CLEANS. Since carbon is made from heating organic material to the point of combustion, the cooling and cleaning aspects go hand in hand. The hotter and drier carbon is made, the harder are the deposits and more difficult to remove. If the carbon is made, and kept at low enough temps it will stay soft, soft enough for the unburned oil to flush it out the exhaust port. Even when using good quality oil, the user can induce circumstances that allow, even promote heavy build up of carbon.



I've been preaching for years that people need to be running more oil in their 2 stroke hobby engines. I never run less oil than 32:1 in any of my small 2 strokes (75-80cc per jug and below), 30cc and under can actually benefit from 24:1 mixtures, under 20cc and 16-20:1 mixtures become necessary, IF you want to keep a clean engine and make it last.



Lastly there's heat, or operating temperature. If you're flying a modern day ARF, even if half the jug is exposed, there is no reason not to know the temps the engine is running at. And there is EVERY reason TOO know the temps your engine is running. One doesn't need expensive telemetry systems to monitor temps. A simple K type thermocouple temp logger like those available at Tower Hobbies (GAG) for $20, used intelligently, will tell you all you need to know. Keep the peak temps under 300F and your engine will thank you. Don't mention using an IR temp gun after landing to me, they're worthless and irrelevant.




this is a great post. Jedijody, when you say peak temps, can you please elaborate on "where" this peak temperature is? are you referring to peak temperature in the back of the cylinder, top fin area, closer to spark plug, in the shadow of the prop wash?
 

ChickenBalls

"Cool Guy"
Thanks for taking the time to answer Jody, while this engine isn't mine, I run mine the same as this one, and even though your probably gonna call me a dummy I've never checked heat. I'll be adding more oil to my mix, only reason I've ever run 40:1 was less mess to clean up, which isn't much in first place, don't see going to 32:1 making much more clean up. [MENTION=188]emtp275[/MENTION] see if you can find that thermocoupler, lets get some heat temps.



Justin I'll grab my 30 out the shop, and we'll pull it down and have a look, while we in there, we can install bowman ring, and do reed mod. BTW did you have the cowl on that Slick last night? Thanks again Jody for your help
 

Capt.Roll

70cc twin V2
Thanks for posting a thorough and detailed explanation Jody. Even with my limited working knowledge of 2 cycle engines this makes sense to me.
 
O

Ohio AV8TOR

Jedijody;14674 wrote: . One doesn't need expensive telemetry systems to monitor temps. A simple K type thermocouple temp logger like those available at Tower Hobbies (GAG) for $20, used intelligently, will tell you all you need to know. Keep the peak temps under 300F and your engine will thank you. Don't mention using an IR temp gun after landing to me, they're worthless and irrelevant.


I did some searching on Tower and did not see anything searching temp logger, temp monitor. Anyone have a link on what Jodi is referring to here?
 
Ohio AV8TOR;14756 wrote: Thanks [MENTION=163]ChickenBalls[/MENTION] not sure either. I did not see this at Tower but searching I found a Venum Temp logger, I wonder if [MENTION=233]Jedijody[/MENTION] meant something like this.

http://www.rchobbyexplosion.com/Venom_Micro_Temp_Monitor_p/vnel-104.htm
looks like that may be what he is referring to.



i have real time temperature with the Jeti telemetry system. at the end of the flight, i can go back and look at peak temps on the log data page. the question is, where do you read the temperature. the temperature will be different at different areas.



the temperature in the front of the cylinder (where most people check with an IR gun), has a much lower temp than the temp in the back of the cylinder (in the shadow of the prop wasH)



this is where it is hottest, top back of the cylinder, in the shadow of the prop-wash.
 

Do-rag

100cc
orthobird;14795 wrote: looks like that may be what he is referring to.



i have real time temperature with the Jeti telemetry system. at the end of the flight, i can go back and look at peak temps on the log data page. the question is, where do you read the temperature. the temperature will be different at different areas.



the temperature in the front of the cylinder (where most people check with an IR gun), has a much lower temp than the temp in the back of the cylinder (in the shadow of the prop wasH)



this is where it is hottest, top back of the cylinder, in the shadow of the prop-wash.
[MENTION=233]Jedijody[/MENTION]; where do you suggest placing the temp logger?
 
Top