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Yippee! Charging The Lithium Polymer Beast

Doc Austin

70cc twin V2
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Generally I try to stay away from technical articles about electric chargers and such because this is not my area of expertise. Mostly I try to keep the blog just fun, but you do have to charge your batteries and you do need to know something about it. I came into electrics knowing absolutely nothing about how brushless power systems, Li Po batteries and chargers worked, and it's been a bit of a learning experience. Mostly I didn't bother memorizing all the formulas and math, and simply tried to learn what works in the airplane and at the field, and the following is how I have learned to do it, so far, that is.

Chargers
For years I have used the Thunder Power 610C AC/DC chargers, and those have served me really, really well. I can use either a 110V outlet, or even use my car battery to power this charger, so it is a very versatile unit. I also used the regular TP610C that was strictly a 12 volt unit. I still have two 610C AC/DC chargers, and I keep one under the seat of my car just in case I need it or one of my friends needs it. I've also got a second one I keep on the bench if I need to top a pack off real quick and don't want to go to the trouble of hooking up my more powerful system.

THP610CACDC_000.jpg


Both were reliable, hard working little chargers, but in the end they were still just that ....... comparatively little chargers without big power. For a lot of folks this is still just fine because the most common battery I see at the field is something like a 3s 2200 to 2700 mah. I can charge a 65C 2250 pack in about 12-15 minutes on a 610C, and this size battery is so inexpensive that you can almost have enough of them to fly all day anyway.

Where you need a lot of power is when you get up into charging something like a 6s 3850 pack. It takes my 610C about 1.5 hours to charge one of those, which is clearly too damm slow. I put up with that for about two days and decided it was time to get a fire breathing monster to charge those packs.

Having liked my 610Cs so much I wanted to stay with a Thunder Power charger (And so did Thunder Power!). I talked to my buddy Mark in service and he put me on to the Thunder Power TP820CD charger.

TP820CDTHP820CDLAYOUTCLIPPED_001.JPG

Now we are talking about a serious charger, but surprisingly the programming is very similar to the 610C, which itself is pretty easy to learn. As such, I was comfortable using this charger right away. I plugged it in without even opening the manual and understood it as soon as it lit up.

The primary difference, at least externally, is the TP820CD can charge two packs simultaneously. The difference internally is just how powerful this charger is, capable of feeding each battery a whopping 20 amps. Like this I can charge two 6s 3850 65C packs in 14-16 minutes, depending on how low the pack was beforehand. I can also charge my 4s 2700 65C packs in 12-14 minutes and 3s 2250 65C packs in about eight minutes! And remember, this is charging two packs at a time, and that includes charging different size and voltage packs at the same time.

Charging the packs fast like this means I don't need to take as many to the field, or even better I don't have to buy as many to begin with, which adds up when you are flying expensive 6s 3850 packs. In fact, I now only need two of them instead of four. The difference would have more than paid for this charger.

Of course, there is a lot more to it than that because the charger does much more, and I am still discovering it. I just today played around with it a bit and figured out to use it to measure the internal resistance of the packs, and the good news there is that all they made it through the hot summer still in really good shape.

So, while I am still learning about this charger I am definitely loving it more and more.

The Solid Hobby Power Supply
Initially I was powering my TP820Cd with a Feathermerchant 24 volt power supply, and it served me extremely well. It's a really good unit, though I have often wished it only needed one power outlet (instead of two) to operate. When I saw that Solid Hobby was manufacturing a Y-harness complete with on/off switch, I had to get one. I liked the unit a lot, except there was an awful lot of wire there. I suggested to Jeremy at Solid Hobby that the two cords coming out of the power supply be shortened, and then the switch could be velcroed to the top of the power supply. Jeremy swapped out my unit for the improved one at no charge, so I was pretty pleased with how I was treated. I believe all the switches now come this way.

Switch.JPG

Now I only needed to take up one outlet, and with the switch I wasn't having to unplug it every time I was finished. This new arrangement also tidied up all the wiring and made the whole thing much neater, which is exactly how I like things.

Later when talking to Jeremy via PM at RC Groups, he mentioned he would be manufacturing a 24 volt power supply, and incorporating a few improvements. As pleased as I was with the other product, I knew I was going to want one of the The Power24+ supplies too.

Unpacking the The Power24+ today I was delighted to see how nice the thing is. Ok, I get it that no one goes to the field and says "Damm, you got a pretty power supply," but the truth is this thing looks real nice. It is a very well finished product. Initially I thought they had made an outer case, but later found out that each one is individually hand covered with black Ultrakote!

Charge+System.JPG

It did not take long to realize this charger was built for married men. My wife noticed right away the unit has little rubber feet on the bottom, and she remarked it's nice the thing won't scratch the kitchen counter! While that's practical enough, it is also nice this could keep the thing from sliding off the work bench. It also gets it up off the ground enough that it is much easier to get your hands around it to pick it up. This might seem insignificant until you get arthritis in your hands, and then it is a bit of a godsend.

Upon firing the unit up I could hear right away how much quieter it is. This will come in handy for guys who have to charge inside the house and don't dare disturb the Wifey's TV time. The fans also run at slower speed until more cooling is needed, and then they crank up.

Having been around racing and model airplane engines all my life, I have a bit of hearing loss. When there are too many noises everything seems to turn to mush, Around the field with the traffic and other noise, the cooling fans on a power supply make having a conversation around my pit very difficult for me. With this new unit I am sure that will become a lot easier.

Outputs.JPG


As you can see, there are dual outputs, meaning you can use two chargers. In this picture, you will use the black outputs and the red outputs on the very left to run the power system as a 12 volt unit.

Jumper.JPG

Here you can see the red jumper wire used to hook the two power units together and make a 24 volt supply. This is the way I will be running it with my TP820CD. Also note in the above pic the nice little shields over the cooling fan intakes. Every so often I accidentally stick one of my fingers in the fan on my other power supply while it is running, but you can't do that on this unit.

So far I have charged a few packs getting ready for tomorrow, but the real test for this power supply will be in the field. So far I am really pleased with it and look forward to seeing what she's got tomorrow.

Units will be going into production shortly. List price will be $110 for the power supply including the on/off switch + $15 for US shipping, so the total out of pocket will be $125.

Also worth noting is that the Power24+ system comes with a one year replacement warranty, so you'll be making a safe investment in powering your models.

TP+Laser+EXP+Artwork+013.jpg
 
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quadracer

100cc
Good write-up! I have a question though; what is the reason for using a 24v power supply, when there's a 120v receptacle available? Seems like an added expense, and another component that could fail. Are the chargers you're using only designed for 24v? I'm relatively caveman-esque when it comes to charging, as I only have an Onyx 235 charger.
 

Doc Austin

70cc twin V2
Good write-up! I have a question though; what is the reason for using a 24v power supply, when there's a 120v receptacle available?

The only 110 volt chargers I know of are low amperage, like the TP610C AC/DC. With the Power24+ and a hot 24 volt charger you can crank the amps to those batteries.

Seems like an added expense, and another component that could fail.

Yeah, it does, but I've been using the feathermerchant supply for about a year with no worries. Both supply systems are built from HP computer supplies, so they are pretty bullet proof units.

I don't know of a self contained charger that will crank out 20 amps per side, or I would probably have one.

Are the chargers you're using only designed for 24v?

The TP610C is a decicated 6v charger and the TP820CD will do both 12 and 24 volts. Someone explained to me that even charging smaller batteries, on 24 volts the charger still operates more efficiently. I wish I remember exactly what he told me, but at the time it made sense.

I'm relatively caveman-esque when it comes to charging,

As am I, so I appreciate simple chargers, power supplies, and stuff.

Another nice bonus of running 12C charge rate batteries is that I can't screw up bad enough to damage one overcharging it. The smallest pack I own charges at up to 27 amps, and my TP820CD only puts out 20 per side. I'm actually working the charger harder than I am working the batteries!

I believe the TP820CD is so advanced that it know what packs your are charging and won't let you overcharge them. I believe that's the case, but give me some time to check the owner's manual.
 
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dth7

3DRCF Regional Ambassador
Hey Doc, Nice to see you here!
Questions-
- Do you ever use parallel boards? I've been using them with my Thunder AC680 and they work great on 2-4 cell so far but I have a 60" EF Extra on the bench that's going to be eating up those 6 cell 3300s. I've never used a power supply, only the ac/dc units (I have 2 with parallel boards so I can do 12 batts if I want.

- What's the total outlay for the power supply and charger?

- at the field can the power supply run off your car batt at 24V or is it 12V or use a generator?

Thanks for the article.
 

Doc Austin

70cc twin V2
- Do you ever use parallel boards?

No, but I need to give it a try.


I have a 60" EF Extra on the bench that's going to be eating up those 6 cell 3300s.

You're going to love that plane. Mine just went through a minor refurbishing because it had a hard summer doing development work on the new 4016 Mk II motor. It got a lot of flight time and I really fell in love with it. Check my blog for articles on the plane with set up info and photos.

- What's the total outlay for the power supply and charger?

Oh, heck....... I dunno. It's 47 amps. Not sure about the wattage, but I'll ask Jeremy at Solid Hobby.

- at the field can the power supply run off your car batt at 24V or is it 12V or use a generator?

You need 110 volts, so if you have a generator that would work.
 
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Hey Doc, thanks for the great write up! I wanted to address some of the questions that have been asked:

Good write-up! I have a question though; what is the reason for using a 24v power supply, when there's a 120v receptacle available?...

110v is AC current whereas the charger needs DC current to charge the batteries. Most manufacturers do not include the AC to DC converter in the charger so you need a separate power supply. Or, like Doc said above, they do include the power supply built into the charger, but then you sacrifice capacity to keep the price down. Keep in mind that power (watts) = amps X volts. The 110v AC is only at 15 amps max in most houses, and even limited further by your charger, but the when we are using 12v or 24v we can crank up the current (amps) to 47 max so you get the same net power which is measure in watts (less some for efficiency losses in the switching power supply and charger). It is worth noting that if manufacturers did include the power supply in the charger it would probably increase the price of the charger by a lot more than the price of my power supply, probably anywhere from 2 to 3 or maybe even 4 hundred dollars increase as they would need to make a new power supply + all the licensing and liability that would go along with that and the ones I am selling are repurposed power supplies pulled from servers so I can offer them at a very low price. They are solid power supplies though so you don’t need to worry about them breaking on you, plus each one I sell comes with a full 1 year replacement warranty.

…
- Do you ever use parallel boards…

I highly recommend parallel boards. I use one and I can charge all 6 of my 4 cell batteries that are 2500mah at the same time in less than 20 minutes. I use a different charger though, so I don’t have experience with the Thunder Power chargers, but I think you can do the same thing with theirs.



…
- What's the total outlay for the power supply and charger?...

The Power24+ max current rating is 47 amps. When connected to the 24v leads you can get 1150 watts, when connected to the 12v leads it is 575 watts. In testing I have actually pushed the power supply up to 50+ amps. It is not recommended to do this; I just wanted to see what its true limits were. It has built in over current/load protection meaning that once the current exceeds a certain limit, the power supply just shuts off to protect itself. When this happens you just cycle the power off, then once you turn it back on the power supply picks right back up where it left off without missing a beat. HP really did a good job designing these power supplies. I built a dummy load that is capable of pushing the power supply to the limit and beyond, in testing I found that this limit where the over current protection will shut the supply down is about 55 amps. Again, I would not run it up to 55 amps as the rating is only 47 amps, but at least you know that fail safe is there.


…
- at the field can the power supply run off your car batt at 24V or is it 12V or use a generator?...

You can run the Power24+ supply at the field because it has an APFC which basically means that it is more efficient and will run off of a generator without any problems at all. The Power24+ will take 100v to 240v AC, 50-60Hz on the input side. You can also connect to your car battery instead of using a generator and power supply but that is only 12v, the Power24+ will give you 24v which means you can charge your lipos faster and you don’t risk walking home :).

The nice thing about the Power24+ is you don’t really have to understand all of this technical stuff, it’s nice to know, but pretty much everything is just plug and go, there are really no user inputs. It has enough built in protections that you really can’t break it: over current protection, over voltage protection, short circuit protection (if you accidently short the leads together), fan speed control…

I’ll be here if you guys have any more questions. I am going to be selling these in the classified section here and at www.solidhobby.com. I am still working on getting my website up, but it should be ready soon. In the mean time, if you want one you can just PM me.

Jeremy
 

Doc Austin

70cc twin V2
Thanks, Jeremy. I am not so swift with all the technical stuff.

One of the reasons I never tried parrellel charging is that with this power system (and previously the FM system), I can pop out any two batteries I own in 15 minutes or less, and you simply can't fly them fast enough to keep up with that. Certainly this would change if I ever get up into 70" planes with 12s power system and such, but I think I am pretty much locked into the convenience of the 48"s, with a few 60"s thrown in now and then.

As it is, when flying the 48s I put the pack on charge, go to the rest room and then get something to drink, fly again, and the first pack is ready to go again. Llike this you only need two packs and you can rotate those all day.
Generally I like to take four packs and by the time I have loaded up and said goodbye to all my buddies, that last pack is charged and I am ready to go again for the next day. The only time there is any sort of problem is when I forget to put a pack on charge, but then, that's correctable in as little as 8-15 minutes depending on the battery size.

I knew I was going to miss all of July after some eye surgery, so I ran all my packs down to storage voltage and forgot about it. When I went back to flying, I took the big Extra, and naturally I forgot to charge those big 6s packs. Not to worry, though, because within 30 minutes I had all four of them charged up and ready to go. I spent that time socializing because I had not seen anyone for a month, and a potentially big mistake turned into nothing because I had the right charging equipment to get me back in action fast.

So, essentially, charging has become a non issue for me. The only place I ever charge any more is at the field.

At the field, i usually just connect my charger directly to my car battery...

Unfortunately it only takes about two of the 6s 3850 packs to drain mine down to where I am stranded and need a jump start.

I also remember when I used to charge off my car battery that after about 14-15 amps I would start getting low power errors. Last year I started flying more at my club that has 110, mostly because I was flying my 60" Extra so much. That's when I started getting into bigger chargers and finally my own power system. It took about 1.5 hours to charge a single 6s 3850 off my car, but now running it on 110, my TP820CD can pop out two at a time in about 14-16 minutes.

When I go to my club that doesn't have 100, that's a small, rough field and I don't like to take my large and nice planes there. I generally take six 4s 2700packs with me. we have solar power charging big batteries there, but I think someone in the morning must be charging their car batteries off it or something because it is always dead when I get there.

I got stranded out there a couple of times with a dead car battery, so now I like to go toi the nice club with all the ammenities and charge off the 100v we have there.
 
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Yeah, I think it makes sense if you are charging at the club that you wouldn't need as many batteries. I usually charge all of mine at home. I find between work, family, life...I typically just do not have enough time to fly more than about about an hour or two at a time.
 

SnowDog

Moderator
I always hope I'll have more time when I'm at the field than what I actually have. Between flying my plans and helping other people learn how to fly and talking with my fellow club members about club business, I rarely run out of fully charged packs at the field. :(

But my family was considerate and purchased a deep cycle marine battery for me this fall, so I can charge batteries at the field if I need to. Last week, I actually recharged a battery at the field, but then had to leave before I could use it :/

I don't like charging from my car battery, especially with the bigger lipos.
 
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